The Spirituality Series is sponsored by Mary & Joseph Retreat Center Herb K & Joe C will discuss their respective approaches: Traditional VS Non-Traditional and dialogue about their understanding and experience then open the workshop to participant questions. Herb K will unpack his understanding and experience with the Big Book from the “spiritual” perspective – helping participants clarify the practical meanings of: FAITH; CHOICE; DECISION. Joe C will share his approach from the “secular” viewpoint – addressing the % of people coming from or drawn toward atheism or agnosticism, modeling how to have an effective personal experience.

From Joe C.: “Step Two and Three are a process for a freethinker like me--not an event. My unaided will was insufficient to sustain sobriety. What resources would suffice; where would I go or what/whom would I turn to for the care that I needed? None of these are original ideas, but I heard them at AA meetings and applied them to my life: a) the power of example, b) a Group of Drunks, c) a higher purpose. As ideas and practical tools, these three touchstones have all been instrumental throughout my AA recovery. I see in these principles the same practices and hope of Steps Two and Three that others find who ‘call it God-consciousness’."

Herb K’s journey ~ 7 years in Claretian seminary, a graduate education in psychology, 40 years in human resources consulting, certification as a Spiritual Director, active participation in 12 Step Fellowship since 1984 and the publication of 3 books on spiritual awakening.

Joe C’s search for a secular daily reflection book for people in recovery came up empty, leading to his writing “Beyond Belief: Agnostic Musings for 12 Step Life” (2013). Joe is a broadcaster & author, clean and sober since Disco music. His writing, research and reporting efforts have been directed towards music, finance, travel, mental health and addiction/recovery. Joe hosts a syndicated show on IndieCan Radio, devoted to the emerging music scene and Rebellion Dogs Radio, a contemporary look at 12-step life. Contact Joe at

Cost: $25 - Zoom information and links will be emailed to you a few days before each event. info: register: